Islam Submission

The Attitude Problem

When I was being trained as a young officer in the British armed forces, it was explained to me and my proteges that there were three elements to the process of training people; in our case, training people to take part in the conduct of warfare but, in fact, training people to do anything really.

These three elements were (and remain) the development of skills, knowledge and attitude. Of these three components of the training process, the most important component is the development of attitude. If a soldier doesn’t possess the attitude needed readily to enter combat, all his other skills and knowledge become largely superfluous. Attitude is a settled way of feeling or thinking about something.

Today, in the context of the British way of life being threatened by the religion of Islam, we as a society have an attitude problem.

There, see what I mean? You probably just felt or thought that I got that sentence wrong; that we’re not threatened by the religion of Islam; we’re threatened by nutjobs who masquerade under the banner of Islam. You’re thinking #hopenothate #notallmuslims #prayformanchester #thoughtsandprayers #tolerance #openborders #refugeeswelcomehere.


You’re thinking these things because you are told – indeed, you are conditioned to think these things. To think anything else is a hate crime. OK, you can hate the slaughter of children at a pop concert. But, how dare you even think about hating those who submit to the will of Allah. We’re told to adopt the attitude that there is no connection between the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad and some nutjob triggering a suicide vest standing amongst hundreds of children in a theatre foyer.

We’re conditioned to adopt an attitude which obliges us to disconnect slaughter on our streets from the religion of submission (Islam); we’re obliged to disconnect a suicide bomber in the Manchester Arena from a policy of open borders and refugees welcome here; we must not connect the mindsets of the murderers of people on buses and tube trains in London with the teaching of imams (the leaders of prayers in mosques).

Our political class and its Establishment and media hangers-on are the thought-leaders in all this. They communicate messages both openly and subliminally designed to have us adopt an attitude of tolerance towards our own destruction from within. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing on Monday, the Chief Constable of Manchester warned us that ‘[he] won’t tolerate hate’. By that he meant not the hate of people who shred little girls’ bodies, but the hate of mean-spirited citizens who tweet angrily at the scum who shred little girls’ bodies, or at the scum’s religion. That sort of hate will not be tolerated. WTF?

Time and again we hear politicians, Establishment figures (senior police officers can be the worst offenders), the BBC and its media ilk banging on more about ‘the rising tide of Islamophobia’ than they talk about the creeping, pernicious effect of the Islamic religion on the British way of life (wash my mouth out with soap and water).

Why Do We Put Up With This?

For some years now it’s baffled me as to why our political class and Establishment worthies like the Chief Constable of Manchester are so obsessed with having us tolerate the intolerant who live amongst us. Fundamentally, it’s because our politicians and the Establishment don’t trust us.

The social contract between politicians and the people is under great strain; some might say it’s broken altogether. The evidence for this extends beyond the immediate issue of Islamic Jihad. Look at events in the UK (Farage/Brexit), the US (Trump) and Europe (Wilders, Le Pen, Grillo) lately to get some feel for the growing gap between mainstream political ideas, the received wisdom of the political class, and what tens, if not hundreds of millions of ordinary people are thinking these days.

My point is that the attitude of the political class to the threat to our way of life posed by Islam is at odds with what I believe is the attitude of a growing number of British and European citizens – perhaps even a majority of those citizens – to that existential threat. Here in the UK we shall go to the polls on 8 June in a General Election.  It’s as if the manifestos of the main political parties read something like this:

We’re going to permit within our society the embedding of a sub-culture; a sub-culture of religious medievalism. We’re going to permit the existence, and facilitate the growth of this cancer within our society because we pride ourselves on being a tolerant nation.’

Vote Conservative/Labour/LibDem!

We shall remain relaxed about the largely unfettered movement of people between countries ravaged by Muslim internecine wars and the UK. We shall keep our borders open. Refugees will always be welcome here.’

Vote Conservative/Labour/LibDem!

Bizarrely, politicians really do seem to believe that, by and large, this should be the attitude to our kids being blown to smithereens at a pop concert.

Hope Not Hate

Just last night I was commenting on Facebook against a post about the Manchester attack. A commenter wrote, ‘you could describe what the Manchester bomber did as aggressive intolerance of European values.’ Presumably, I thought, on the scale of tweeting intolerantly about Islam and the Muslim faith? The commenter went on to say, ‘Let’s avoid religions and think of ways to make angry, disillusioned young men part of something productive. I actually support the Hope Not Hate movement.’

Hope Not Hate is really just a virtue-signalling platitude when all’s said and done. It certainly isn’t a strategy for combating Islamic Jihad which is now everywhere amongst us. Part of the reason our children are now being slaughtered is precisely because our political class and all of its Establishment and media hangers-on have spent the past decade and more focusing more on political correctness and virtue-signalling than on taking steps to protect our people at the level of the root cause.

I remain to be convinced that so many sub-communities of sub-cultures within our society share the Hope Not Hate philosophy espoused by not only the great and the good but what I consider to be droves of essentially naïve fellow citizens. I’m not arguing against fellowship, as such – but I’m not convinced it’s a game-changing strategy for destroying Islamic extremism. Our political leaders need to change their emphasis, and some, if we’re going to destroy the enemy in our midst. Pussyfooting about with a love-thy-neighbour approach as the main effort, when your neighbour in some places could be hell-bent on beheading you is not a strategy for bringing peace and security to our citizens.

Islam in Society

Islam is a politico-religious creed frozen in the Middle Ages. It has no place in our society where we’ve spent 1,000 years, expending treasure and spilling blood developing and fine-tuning all of the social mores of democracy and freedom, and organising our way of life under trias politica: the separation of powers into the executive, the legislature and the judiciary. We don’t have to tolerate the slow, pernicious subversion of our way of life by an alien politico-religious philosophy if we don’t want to. It’s an attitude thing.

3 Stages of Jihad

I’m an atheist. I don’t have much time for religion at all, of any persuasion. I recognise my Judeo-Christian heritage; I love cathedrals and churches; I adore choral music; but these things are human constructs, wonderful as they are. Attribute them to an unseen deity, if you wish, but leave me out. I despise the religion of Islam; I hate much of the behaviour of Muslims, especially in relation to their subjugation of women and their devaluing of life. Technically, by publishing comments like these I’m more likely to be arrested for hate crime than if I walked down my local High Street parading the black, ISIL flag chanting, ‘Death to the Infidel’.

Look, I’m not advocating here the wholesale rounding up of people of a certain ethnicity; I’m not proposing that we ditch habeas corpus; I’m not advocating the mass deportation of citizens; I’m not in favour of the suppression of free speech, nor restricting the freedom of religious expression. I’ve hanging in my home two framed versions of Magna Carta: the original Latin version and its English translation. Barely a day goes by when I don’t walk past Magna Carta, stop briefly, look at it and wonder at my good fortune for having been born a British citizen and living where I do today.

Freedom & The Death of Europe

One of the best books I’ve read recently was Daniel Hannan’s, ‘How We Invented Freedom & Why It Matters’. It tells the story of freedom and explains how it is a uniquely British, rather than Western invention. It shows how the inhabitants of this damp island of ours at the western tip of the Eurasian landmass stumbled upon the extraordinary idea that the state was the servant, and not the master of the individual. This book should be read by every member of our political class.

Right now I’m reading Douglas Murray’s, ‘The Strange Death of Europe: Immigration, Identity, Islam’. It addresses the total failure of the misconceived idea of multiculturalism and our fixation in the West on guilt. It’s the story of a continent and culture caught in the act of suicide. It tells the story of declining birth-rates, mass immigration and cultivated self-distrust and self-hatred all coming together to make Europeans unable to argue for themselves and incapable of resisting their own comprehensive change as a society (Islamification).

What’s to be Done?

So, what are we to do?

Well, back to start of this post. We must as a society change our attitude to what is now happening all around us. This change of attitude must be led by our political class and recognised as such by the Establishment and the Fourth Estate. We must dispense with our default attitude of tolerating the intolerant; of turning a blind eye to the cancer within our bloodstream that is Islam on the move; of asserting that there is no connection between the religion of submission to the will of Allah and the bloke who shouts ‘Allahu Akbar!’ before turning our children into mincemeat.

On the matter of Hope Not Hate, it was the early Christian theologian and philosopher, Augustine of Hippo (354 – 430 BC) who said, ‘Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are anger and courage. Anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain as they are.’

I’d like to see our political class change its attitude and tend more to the daughters of hope, than to hope itself.

Here’s Andrew Neil on the subject …

If you think this post is worth sharing and discussing, click on one or more of the relevant buttons below and/or comment as you wish. Perhaps send a link to your elected politicians in local and national government. Thanks for reading.


  1. Julie · ·

    I’ve always felt a certain love and admiration for 🇬🇧 Great Britian and its people. We fought each other during the American Revolution, and then together when defeating Hitler and the Nazis. I wasn’t around for any of this, but you get the close and unique friendship our countries have shared.

    I voted for Obama and supported him for close to 8 years. It took the shocking defeat of Clinton to make me revisit the Obama Administration. What I discovered about this US president sickened and repulsed me. As the “leader of the free world” I know on a very deep level he (and George W) hurt this world and Britain in particular.

    I had been a member of the Democratic Party for years, but I find myself alone now. No way am I a “right-winger”. I love the videos Pat Condell puts out and follow his every post on twitter. I agree that Democracy was more of an invention of the British. I too thank my lucky stars I was born an American. I deeply respect Anne Marie Waters and intend to support her financially.

    I devoured your blog tonight for the first time and I thank the fates for the wisdom I gained from you. I also despise Islam and the behavior of Muslim men especially. You’ve given me the determination to address the Islamists in the Democratic Party. They will hear my voice. Too many liberals in the US are hung up on Obama. Trump is a disaster beyond all words to tell it. But it’s our duty to protect that which is not ours to give away to the savages. My attitude has been adjusted! But I would never intentionally hurt anyone unless in self defense.

    Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you will accept my sincere condolences for the continued losses endured by the British people. The scenes of the people trying to escape murder bring back terrible memories of 9/11. Peace be with you and your fellow citizens.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks for your comment and thoughts, Julie; appreciated. There is indeed a strong bond between the Brits and the Americans and long may it be so. We’ll crush the malign influence of Islam on our Enlightened society here in the UK in due course. People like me are just pushing and waiting for our politicians to get the message. The terrible irony is that we need (wrong word, really, so sorry) more of these sorts of attacks on us for the politicians eventually to ‘do something’.

      Meantime, people like me will shout from the rooftops. Oh, and I do ensure that my local elected politicians are sent links to my writings. I can only hope that they read them. My days of active soldiering are over, so this is the least I can do these days.

      God bless America …


      1. Julie · ·

        Thank you for your reply. I admit (with some shame) that it’s going to take more attacks to wake people up. But your work is brilliant!

        Liked by 1 person

  2. It is not extremists that we have to fear it is Islam. Islam is itself an extreme, supremacist religion and cannot, must not be tolerated.

    There is no place for it in western society. And face up to what that means. The eradication of islam in this country in particular and ultimately in the whole world.

    And any politician that cannot see this is unfit for office.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Yes, thanks Badger. The critical, life-threatening failure of our political class, the Establishment, most of the mainstream media and, for now, countless naive members of our society is to disconnect the workaday teachings of Islam and the behaviours of the ‘moderate’ Muslim community from Islamic Jihad. To quote Frank Sinatra, in fact ‘they go together like a horse and carriage’.

      Our lives and our very way of life are threatened for as long as those who govern us and those who have power and influence over how our society is shaped dictate to us that Islam is the religion of peace. It is not that at all. It is a politico-religious creed demanding the omnipresent submission of us all to the will of Allah. We ignore the deliberate and reckless embedding of Islam into our western, enlightened societies at our absolute peril.

      Liked by 2 people

  3. arfurbryant · ·

    This is another excellent piece, Moraymint.

    No reasonable person should fall into the trap of thinking this can be sorted out by ‘just being tolerant’. Make no mistake, this is about one religion feeling and saying it is superior to any other religion. No amount of hand-writing by liberal-minded politicians and media personalities will change the minds of those who, in varying degrees of extremism, wish to bring their way of life to our country. It is not simply about bragging power, or who has the biggest gang, it is firstly and foremostly about Muslim extremists convincing themselves that their religion is the only one that should be allowed to be practiced.

    Islam is a fundamentally intolerant religion. There are no public churches in Saudi Arabia. Christianity was the same during the time of the Crusades. No amount of tolerance shown to it by other cultures or religions will appease the Islamic extremists. It might look good on a manifesto but speaking softly without carrying a (f***ing) big stick simply will not work.

    It is the Muslim community that needs at least to try to sort this, in conjunction with the authorities. I won’t hold my breath…

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks arfur. I’ve made sure that my local politicians have seen this post. I intend to write more on this subject over time. We’re at war with Islam, to all intents and purposes, but the last people in our country to acknowledge this at the moment are – ironically – the people elected to govern us. For as long as the political class refuses to acknowledge the Fifth Column now embedded within, and poised to flourish (probably the wrong word) in our society, the threat to our very lives and way of life will persist.


      1. arfurbryant · ·

        I’m afraid it is the nature of the beast(s).

        Oh, and apologies for typing ‘practiced’ instead of ‘practised’. I’d love to blame autocorrection but it was just poor staff work…:)

        Liked by 1 person

  4. The Labour Party relies on the votes of the muslim community in particular, which is why you won’t hear Jeremy Corbyn, Andy Burnham, Diane Abbott et al overtly criticise muslims or Islam for any role in the causes or symptoms that have precipitated the atrocities perpetrated by Islamic/muslim extremists across Europe. It also explains why Rotherham happened, where over 1400 predominately white girls were raped and sexually abused by predominantly Pakistani heritage men. All under the ‘eyes’ of a Labour council and local institutions that were scared of being accused of racism. If it had been Asian girls being raped & abused by caucasian men, how long would it have gone on for before the authorities would have intervened: weeks, months, maybe, certainly not years.

    Did anyone see Trevor Phillips CH4 programme last year: ‘What British Muslims Really Think’? The ICM Research that backed the programme was both shocking & an eye opener. The attitudes of a large number of the 3.5million muslims living in the UK is so far removed from what is the settled view of most Brits, on issues such as homosexuality, gender equality, polygamy, justification to suicide bomb, the rule of law and stoning of women accused of adultery that we truly have a nation within a nation (a fifth column).

    We’re heading for big trouble: the muslim population is growing at such a rate that by mid century 1 in 3 Brits are likely to be muslim. Remind me, who voted for mass immigration and multiculturalism? Thanks LibLabCon (& the masses that still blindly vote for them) for sowing the seeds for what could be the cultural destruction of Great Britain. If the muslim population isn’t fully integrated into British society within twenty years, fully accepting our laws, traditions and values then I fear for what will happen to our Country.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Julie · ·

      Is deportation of the worst among you a viable option? Or closing mosques? Outlawing Islam in public (prayers)? Outlawing the hijab?


      1. moraymint · ·

        Whatever we do needs to be strictly in accordance with the law. We have plenty of laws to deal with the worst effects of Islam in our society. Our fundamental problem is that all debate about Islam as a force for bad in our society (for it IS a force for bad in our society) is closed down by the political class, by the Establishment and much of our mainstream media here – the BBC being the worst offender (a media ‘service’ for which we’re taxed) …

        Liked by 1 person

  5. flyer · ·

    I’m posting another video by: Paul Joseph Watson here. It tells the truth about the migrant crisis, the best video on the subject I’ve ever seen and it’s totally frightening. I urge you all to share it, people need to see it.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. flyer · ·

    Very relevant video here about the Stockholm Syndrome that infects the mind of the Lefties and their Political Correctness. By Paul Joseph Watson.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Hi Moraymint. Your blog was recommended to me by dissent angle. Would you mind if we re-posted your article at the Participator – (new online political opinion magazine launched in March)? We have posted an article by Dr. Tim Morgan who has commented here as well. I have written a short introduction to the site at my own blog:

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks for your comment Chauncey. In the spirit of freedom of speech and the promotion of wide and free-ranging discourse, I should be delighted to be associated with The Participator …

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Great, thanks we’ve posted it this morning:

        I’ll spend some time doing the rounds on other sites today trying to get some more feedback.

        Liked by 1 person

        1. moraymint · ·

          Thanks for letting me know Chauncey. Minor detail: Moraymint is all one word!

          Liked by 1 person

  8. dissent angle · ·

    Islamic misogyny is tolerated for money. For that, look no further than the owners of Old Trafford Cricket Ground and Manchester City FC. With the Tories keen to show that Britain is ‘open for business’ post-Brexit, expect more of the same. We could see a drop in direct foreign investment from continental Europe, which will need to be offset elsewhere, guess where?

    Liked by 2 people

  9. In the light of what Jeremy Corbyn has said today, suggesting that IS attacks are motivated by Western foreign policy, it’s worth noting what Islamic State ITSELF said last year in a statement of “why we hate you and why we fight you”.

    This is from an article by Tom Wilson on Cap-X. Here’s the link:

    On foreign policy, they say: ““although some might argue that your foreign policies are the extent of what drives our hatred, this particular reason for hating you is secondary… The fact is, even if you were to stop bombing us, imprisoning us, torturing us, vilifying us, and usurping our lands, we would continue to hate you because our primary reason for hating you will not cease to exist until you embrace Islam.”

    On their real rationale, they say: “we hate you, first and foremost, because you are disbelievers; you reject the oneness of Allah… and you indulge in all manner of devilish practices… Furthermore, just as your disbelief is the primary reason we hate you, your disbelief is the primary reason we fight you.”

    I’m not posting this to justify the Iraq War, by the way. That war was stupid, futile and almost incomprehensible. But it hasn’t caused IS to hate the West – they already did.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Yes, very interesting Tim. In many ways your comments are in tune with the overall thrust of my post, of course. My argument is that, whether we like it or not, the teachings of Islam are wholly inimical to our western, post-religious, enlightened way of life. For as long as Islam exists and, moreover, is tolerated largely without question within our society, it will pose a threat to our way of life. The profound problem that we have is that our political class and everything that hangs off it (the Establishment, the mainstream media etc) refuses resolutely to acknowledge this threat, still less do anything to counter it. And by ‘threat’ I mean, quite simply, the religion of Islam (despite what Prince Charles might think).

      For now, the process of Islamification of our society will continue, and we will be hacked at, shot at and bombed in the way that the Mayor of London told us was simply ‘part and parcel’ of our lives today. ‘Deal with it’ is the message from our politicians. Potentially to offend any practitioner of Islam is to open oneself up to being identified as a criminal (the preposterous ‘hate crime’). Oh how far we’ve come from Magna Carta, eh?

      As we sink into the quicksands of political correctness, our political class makes me sick to be honest. I don’t do Maudlin as a general rule, but these past few days I’ve wept for those wretched people at Manchester Arena. Our politicians have much to answer for …

      Liked by 1 person

  10. reallyoldbill · ·

    Religion can be a force for good or a force for evil, and indeed has been both those things throughout human recorded history. It is, however, people using the religion, whichever religion it might have been, not the belief itself which determines which it will be. That was as true during the various religious wars in Europe and the Spanish Inquisition as it is today with Islam. It would be absurd, as well as unfair, even for an atheist, to condemn a whole religion for the actions in its name of twisted and inadequate examples of mankind. To that extent it is true that it is Islamists and not Islam itself which is the problem.

    All that said, however, there is a particular problem with Islam in Western countries. Unlike Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish and other “immigrant” religious followers, many of the tenets of Islam do not easily integrate with our customs, values and beliefs. How much trouble is caused by Sikhs refusing to conform with the social norms of their adopted country? Very little if any. And yet there are “patrols” of youths in some parts of our cities abusing western women for their style of dress in their own country. That is not only offensive and unacceptable, but should have been rapidly stamped on as soon as it emerged. Instead, thanks to the unhealthy climate of appeasement adopted by our political class and their uninspiring “celebrity” supporters, the police are actively discouraged, sometimes on pain of disciplinary action, from intervening. The rather oddly named “Hate Crime” (what crime is labelled “Love Crime”?) should, if it is to exist on our statute books at all, be applied with an even hand. The usual excuse that provoking social unrest is best avoided sits very uneasily with the number of non-Muslim victims of such arrogant and divisive behaviour by an emboldened and increasingly extremist faction of an imported religion. Enough. Fear of an explosion of violence by followers of Islam if the host, majority culture tries to assert its justified dominance in society and insist upon both integration and adoption of and compliance with all our laws by every resident and visitor to our land, may well be as nothing if that host culture feels sufficiently betrayed by its own political class and decides to take matters into its own hands. We are sitting quite literally on a powder keg, responsibility for the making of which sits directly at the feet of the establishment that not only allowed, but actively encouraged, a parallel society to sprout in our previously harmonious midst. Travel to parts of East London, Bradford or Luton, among many other places, and a visitor from Mars could be forgiven for thinking that he had landed in Karachi. How was that allowed to happen? And why did people endure the uncertainty and hardship of travelling from far off lands simply to turn the place to which they arrived into a mirror of what they had left? By all means allow immigrants to retain their cultural heritage, as so many other religious groupings have successfully done upon arrival here, but not at the expense of exterminating the culture that was generous enough to allow them to settle in the first place.

    The unpalatable truth is, so obviously ignored by the political and establishment classes but so obvious to everyone else, that a very large number, possibly even a majority, of Muslims in the UK do not wish to integrate with mainstream society The wholly divisive and religiously unnecessary face veil is simply an outward manifestation of that; a clear signal that “I reject your values and wish to remain apart”. Calls for faces to be clearly visible in public, far from being a sign of intolerance, are the reverse: a desire for every citizen to be equal and for human interaction to be possible in a normal manner, in which facial expressions play a huge part. Other countries have now enacted laws banning such face coverings in public; those who in this country try to pretend that such obligations are incompatible with British values of liberty (ironically many of whom supported the introduction of national ID cards) are betraying the very liberties that they claim to be defending.

    Today’s papers carried pictures of the large crowds of people gathered in Manchester to show respect and solidarity following the outrageous bombing of innocent young children this week. Despite the huge numbers present, and the demographic make-up of the city, I failed to identify one single obvious Muslim amongst them; not one single headscarf and almost exclusively white skin tones. That, in a nutshell, is the problem we as a nation now face, and we shall not solve it by platitudes, hang-wringing and cowardice.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Absolutely excellent; thanks Bill …


      1. reallyoldbill · ·

        I meant to add, MM, that I wholly agree with your assessment of Daniel Hannan’s book “How we invented freedom and why it matters”. I read it on the beach in Tobago a couple of years ago. It should be required reading in every school in the land to counter the pernicious, left-leaning distortion of history that seems to pervade the classroom now. Everything negative is laid at the feet of colonialists but any positives, such as the Royal Navy stamping out the slave trade world-wide is simply ignored. It is small wonder that we, as a society, find ourselves with such little national pride and are so reluctant to challenge minorities that infringe upon our national well being. We are breeding a whole generation of apologists for empire, and apparently doing so quite deliberately. Our universities from the 1960s to the present day have much to answer for.

        Liked by 2 people

  11. What happened to my comment?

    Liked by 1 person

    1. moraymint · ·

      Not sure, Jack. Let me check.

      Have checked. Apologies, but for some reason your comment went into the Spam Folder. I’ve now cleared it and it appears further below. Many thanks …


  12. hjosbourne · ·

    Sent from Samsung Mobile on O2


  13. G Irvine · ·

    Three comments. Those to whom have evil done will do evil in return. As sure as night follows day. You’re well read mm. Have you heard of Gen Smedley Butler’s ‘War is a Racket’? And why not throw in Frederic bastiat re when people decide on plunder as a business plan. Simple steps for warmongering elites and everlasting war for the enrichment of empires.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks G – will take a look at your reading suggestions …



    Liked by 1 person

  15. You must begin with the “anti-hate speech” laws that protect the violent ideology of Islam while silencing people that want to ask questions and speak truth about the rising threat. You speak of the cradle of freedom being Britain, but you have sacrificed freedoms all over the place. To an outsider it is terribly and painfully obvious, that the British are happily and rather arrogantly participating in their own demise.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Hear, hear!


    2. Not all Brits are in denial.Some have been warning about the problems for several years now.

      Liked by 2 people

  16. Paul Gregory · ·

    The best analysis I have read, and I have read a few. Thanks and acknowledgement to the author.

    On all the evidence the so-called prophet was a Napolean-like figure with a way for language. It is patently absurd to give him any credence as a messenger of God.

    Normally people quote Voltaire for having said that he would defend to the death your right to say something he disagreed with. But he also allegedly said that anyone who can make you believe an absurdity will also be able to persuade you to commit an atrocity.

    At best Islam is childish. No child should be allowed to be fed these absurdities. So no faith schools, and see that small children are educated early about the evils of most religion just as they need to be educated early about sexuality and how to defend themselves against the predations of paedophiles.

    Respect for a person also means holding them to account for the beliefs they choose to hold. Especially if they have intelligence and education. If you must be Christian about it, it is called tough love.

    In extremis, we must ask why any man who is unable long-term to provide for or care responsibly for his several children should receive state aid. Sterilisation is appropriate. And for those who have failed to integrate, use a RN helicopter to dump them in the Libyan or other desert, by all means with a bottle of water and a hundred dollars, as I believe the Israelis do.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks! That’s the no-nonsense approach, Paul …


  17. gordondiffey · ·

    As a society, we are failing to address too many issues because of the fear of offending others. It has many labels, “political correctness”, “multiculturalism” to name but two. Multiculturalism is fine as long as it is about respecting each other’s’ cultures, but not separate development as that is where the differences in our society fester and grow.

    I have friends of many faiths, creeds, nationalities and colours, and like you have a scientific atheist belief system, we seem to be able to have separate beliefs, but we do respect each other’s viewpoint without the need to strike or kill each other.

    Until our society can have honest discussions and mutual respect for differing views, we will continue to have “extremism”.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. moraymint · ·

      Chimes with Tim Morgan’s comments below …


    2. Unfortunately multiculturalism is the same as apartheid and cannot be defended. Even George Alagiah in his book A Home from Home, which he published in 2006, explains this clearly.

      Liked by 1 person

    1. moraymint · ·

      Thanks Old Goat …


  18. Richard Ross · ·

    Very well put indeed. Hippo was what is today Annaba, in Northern Algeria. Needless to say he wouldn’t recognise it. There is a church on a hill, and a pile of Roman ruins in an overgrown field, fenced off and ignored. There’s a neat analogy right there for the Muslim attitude to that which is not Islamic. We tolerate this crap (and murder) at our peril. Just saw Andy Burnham on Sky being asked about whether platitudes are enough – to which he responded with… a platitude.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      I rest my point!


  19. John Bickley · ·

    Excellent post MM

    Let’s not forget that during WW11 some 43,000 civilians were killed and 87,000 injured, mainly by the Blitzkreig of our major cities by the Luftwaffe. The Manchester Blitz (or Christmas Blitz) of 1940 over two nights (22/23 & 23/24th) resulted in the deaths of 684 people and 2,364 injured. Our parents/grand & great grandparents refused to be cowed by Hitler; they got up the next day & with heroic stoicism got on with life and with winning the war.

    I’m not belittling what happened on Monday (I’m a mancunian) however your quote from Augustine of Hippo says it all.

    BTW watch UKIP’s manifesto launch:

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Preaching to the long ago converted. The majority are slowly coming to know what is going on but when you can lose your career and be paupered for life by the one-sided anti-hate laws it is, for now, best to stay quiet. The writings of V.S.Naipour on the islamification of Indonesia et al do not bode well for Europe.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Yes, like you I sense that there may be a slowly changing attitude now. The critical thing is for more politicians and public figures to have the courage (one of those daughters of hope) to speak out …

      Liked by 1 person

  21. Good analysis, MM.

    I think there’s a legitimate tactical concern. What IS and similar want to do is to foster intolerance towards Muslims, knowing that this would recruit huge numbers to their cause. The motto for resistance movements has been put as “if your enemy isn’t brutal by nature, make him so by provocation”. That’s a consideration that does have to be weighed.

    But your broader point is right. The authorities have been too quick to repress freedoms – especially freedom of expression on sensitive issues, where free speech carries the freedom to cause offence.

    The trouble with censorship is that it drives views deemed “unacceptable” underground, and stifles debate, which can otherwise be a safety-valve.

    Voltaire is supposed to have said that “I detest what you say, but I will defend with my life your right to say it”. That’s the Enlightenment principle which dragged Europe out of repression and superstition – and it’s why freedom of expression (including, unfortunately, the right to cause offence) is so vital.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. moraymint · ·

      Yes, thanks Tim – I take your point entirely. I’m not advocating declaring war on Islam and Muslims. What I am saying is that politicians and others in positions of power and influence within our society must permit, indeed foment and facilitate a full and frank debate about the implications of Islam within our society. That debate must include, of course, Muslims themselves. We can’t go on sweeping under the carpet the dark, unchallenged philosophies of Islam and the behaviours of so many Muslims (including tolerating Sharia Law within our society) in the hope that it’ll be alright on the night. We need to be able to express our anger about what’s going on here (without fear of having our collars felt), and have the courage as a society to deal with it head on …

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Indeed. There is a specific group within Islam, the Wahabbis, a small proportion of the Muslim world, but backed by Saudi money and influence. I understand that they are antagonistic towards other, “mainstream” Muslims – so this is a crack into which we could usefully drive a wedge.

        More broadly, the issue is tolerance. The freedom to worship your own faith (or none) is inseparable from the right of others to do the same. People struggled and died for this freedom, notably against the Medieval church. Our leaders are all too ready to surrender this hard-won “right to disagree” which, yes, is necessarily a “right to offend”.

        Christians, for instance, were offended by “Life of Brian”, but few if any denied the right of the film-makers to make it. It’s “the tolerant acceptance of difference” – a phrase which ought to be stamped on every passport and official document.

        Liked by 2 people

        1. Hello Dr. Morgan, its a small world in the blogosphere!

          The freedom to worship your own faith (or none) is inseparable from the right of others to do the same.

          Unfortunately I see an insurmountable problem with this thinking – and I think this question is at the very heart of our problems today. If a religion is fundamentally at odds with our laws – for example because it incites violence, then “tolerating” such a religion means compromising our legal system by making an exception for the followers of that particular religion.

          Equality before the law is probably the most important principle in a just society, if we are making exceptions like this then we are compromising that hugely important principle in a very fundamental way.

          In my mind to get around this problem we have only 2 choices, either:

          1. We must ALTER our current laws so that all incitements including incitement to murder are also “tolerated”. A mafia boss must be free to instruct his henchmen to murder those who annoy him as he pleases. An imam must similarly be free to urge his congregation to decapitate/dismember the disbelievers as per the instructions in the Koran (book 8 verse 12 just for one example of many). Only by tolerating ALL incitements to violence equally can we return to a level playing field.


          2. We must regard the religion in question as illegal just in the way we would regard a Mafia boss’s instructions to his henchmen as illegal currently.

          Liked by 1 person

          1. Well, my answer is that individuals, not religions, break laws. Anyone perpetrating violence, or inciting violence, should be punished, without fear or favour. There should be no excuses – and “I was only following orders” has never been accepted as a defence.

            The real problem is the “fear or favour” part. The establishment seems unable to adhere to this principle. It is guilty of both “fear” (of causing offence) and “favour” (towards minorities). If laws prohibiting violence and incitement were enforced equally, the problems would largely disappear.

            The behaviour of the political left is particularly reprehensible. In past times, the “left” championed the “poor”, the “working class” and “ordinary people”. But the left then betrayed these causes by selling out – and, once you’ve bought the second home in Tuscany and packed the children off to expensive fee-paying schools, you cannot credibly speak up for “the workers”. That’s why the Left adopted “identity politics” instead.

            Liked by 1 person

        2. Unfortunately the info available doesn’t really seem to support the idea that only Wahhabi influenced mosques are problematic.

          See these figures:

          Deobandi is 43.2%

          A Times article reported that:

          Britain’s biggest Islamic sect allowed a militant linked to al-Qaeda to tour dozens of mosques on a jihadist recruitment drive that spawned terror plots and murders.

          Senior representatives of the Deobandi sect, a supposedly moderate movement that controls almost half of Britain’s 1,600 mosques, hosted the extremist cleric Masood Azhar during a 30-day visit in which hundreds of young Muslims were urged to seek weapons training at terrorist camps in Pakistan.

          From this article:

          An article from 2016 claims:

          a large percentage of prison Imams have been taught at ‘Deobandi’ institutions – a branch of Islam that has known links to extremism.

          Pamphlets and CDs have been found freely available at more than ten prisons which encourage the murder of apostates

          (and why on earth wouldn’t they be doing that, its what Mohammed himself called for).

          The Deobandi movement is extremely conservative. According to a source quoted here in wikipedia it was funded by the Saudis up until the 2000s but not any more:

          I’m not about to assume that the other movements controlling mosques are necessarily what we would term “moderate” either – one estimate (alleged from Quilliam foundation) put the number of UK mosques hosting “Islamist” preachers at 90%.

          An article hear claims there is even a problem with growing extremism in the barelvi movement (Bareilvi 24.8% of UK mosques)

          In short I don’t think that driving a wedge between these different groups is really likely to foster more moderation I’m afraid. There is a growing intolerance among all of them, tolerating this intolerance doesn’t appear to have any impact on the situation whatsoever (its what we have been doing for half a century after all).

          See also:

          Liked by 1 person

  22. Yup – nailed it again Mr Mint

    AFAIK, if someone so much as downloads photos of children, you can be arrested charged and sent down as a pedophile

    So – intent – or even bad thoughts – leads to prison – essentially we as a society (via our politicians) have declared that even to think about molesting a child is enough to have you subject to the full force of the law.

    You could almost call this a thought-crime.

    What’s the difference here between thinking about pedophilia, and thinking about commuting a terrorist act (ironically in the case of Manchester – against children specifically)?

    So – if you show sympathy via social media or other means to certain types of terrorism – you get locked up.

    If these so called Jihadi circles are “known” to the authorities, they should be rounded up and dealt with

    I don’t see this as too hard, frankly!

    Liked by 2 people

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